E-commerce Tougher: Singapore's Nutra Start-up to Hone AI Avatar, Product Range to Meet Evolving Needs

Here's the transcription:

Introduction: Hello and welcome to Nutra Champion, a podcast series where we speak with experts from the health and nutrition industry. I am Ting Ming, the editor of Nutra Ingredients Asia and the host for this podcast. Since 2019, we have featured researchers, health practitioners, policy makers, and for the year of 2024, we are going to focus more on the business aspects of the nutraceutical industry. And so, we will be speaking with more business leaders to find out their views and insights on what it takes to run a nutraceutical business, including the unique opportunities and challenges in the specific market categories that they operate in. Nutra Champion is available in all streaming platforms, including Spotify, Apple, and Google Podcast.
In the ever changing e-commerce landscape, companies from various sectors, including consumer health, are experimenting with different ways to deepen consumer engagement. In this episode of Nutra Champion, I spoke with Eugene Sim, cofounder of Singapore based health supplement company, Nano Singapore. The company started 6 years ago selling its supplement products online before entering the brick and mortar space through an exclusive deal with pharmacy chain Guardian earlier this year. Prior to starting Nano SG, who graduated from National University of Singapore with a first class honors in Business Administration in Finance and Technopreneurship was involved in Business Management spanning across digital strategy, user experience design, and sales management. Bringing his expertise in digital strategy over to Nano SG, Sim will tell us more about how the company is using different digital tools in guiding consumers in their purchase decision as well as the company's recent launches and new product development pipeline.

Host: Hi, Eugene. Thank you so much for joining me today on this Nutra Champion podcast. In the past, we have interviewed, your colleague on Nano SG, on a Vitamin C product. So for this time now, right, I would like to look into some of the latest launches from your company and also some of the history of the company. So maybe we can start off by, you know, sharing with us, some of the latest launches from your company, which is the Deer Placenta Prestige.

Eugene: Thanks. Thank you for getting me on this podcast. Yes. So I think, this year or the most recent products will be 2 key things. One, we are, is the Deer Placenta Prestige, which we've mentioned. I'll share more into that. And the other is actually our new range of sunscreen called Nanoskin. Yeah. So I'll start with the Deer Placenta first.
So this is, a a pretty new supplement that we have launched this year, and, really excited about it because it has one of the, highest potency, you know, at 20,000 mg, compared to what's available in the market. So, the deer placenta is actually something that, is should be very familiar with, for customers and consumers in the Asian region, because it's something that, TCM, you know, widely promotes also. So, we do have a pretty comprehensive formula for the Deer Placenta. And, in fact, the people who are coming on board, right, are, people who are females in the age of, like, late thirties to fifties, probably office ladies. And I think it's got a lot to do with the, you know, the reported benefits of anti-aging, you know, like rejuvenating the skin and having overall increase in vitality.
I think with the hectic lifestyle, especially in this, in this region, right, More and more people are looking at ways on how they can, probably maintain themselves. So this is, this is something that we're really excited about. So, yes.

Host: Yeah. Sure. Sure. I'm wondering, like, how do you think this is how do your plan that, you know, this product is going to meet some of the existing market gaps? What what what are some of the market gaps that you are seeing?

Eugene: Okay. That's a good question. So as I shared earlier, in terms of the existing alternatives available, right, most most likely if you go to, the market, you'll probably see, like, products which mostly have 10,000 mg or less in their formulation. So and to be honest, the Deer Placenta is a bit more expensive compared to other supplement alternatives. So, when we launched this, I think we had something in mind to make it more significantly affordable at the same time to be able to provide a supplement that has a more potent, you know, dosage for, our consumers. So these are the key areas that we're trying to work on when we go into the market to identify what's something that consumers really want. Yeah. And these are the 2 areas that we've identified.

Host: Yeah. It's like I heard that this product is already one of the best performing products for the company when it comes to the range of new newer products that, the company has launched.

Eugene: Yes. I think that, we're very heartened by the interest and the excitement that our consumers, have exhibited. So, I think we are also actively taking in, like, the market feedback, to see, you know, are there any other relevant or complementary supplements that, might be in the pipeline in the future. That is also Deer Placenta related.

Host: You were saying that there's this another launch is on the sunscreen.

Eugene: Yes. Correct.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a topical product. Is it like the first topical product from your company?

Eugene: We actually, we launched quite a couple together at the same time. But, yes, I would say that you can define it as the first because it's quite a if you look at it at the spectrum of, like, products, right, it's quite different from what we have always been pushing out. So, the sunscreen, is not something that you can orally ingest, at least for the moment. Okay?
And, I think the reason why we actually, push this out is is because, we do see again a market gap. And, this is a very classic example of, like, how the changing behaviors of our lifestyle, presents this kind of opportunities. So you're familiar that down in the in the market, we have the blue lens. Right? To protect our eyesight from the screen time.

Host: Yeah

Eugene: Yeah. Similarly, the blue the blue light also, actually does have an impact on photoaging. So, traditionally, no sunscreens protect you from UV. But, as we are more exposed to all these devices, I mean, I can imagine that for most, millennials or gen I mean, whoever it is, we still have headphones for probably up to, like, 5 to 7 hours per day. So, with this advent of all this exposure of blue light, right, I think there comes a point in time where it's important to start with, making sure that we are well protected.
So, Nanoskin is one of the first use most first using the Raybloc technology, which is, by us to provide a broad spectrum protection against not only UV, A and B, but also blue light and infrared. Yeah. So, very excited to have this, in the market also. And I think it is interesting to see, you know, like how the the change the changing of the behavior of people in the world, you know, leads to, new demands.

Host: Sure. Sure. So this is also, like, one of the first topical products from the company. So it means that the company is now into 2 portfolios, 2 segments. One is the NutraSweet because oral supplements, another one is on topicals. I so these are these are the 2 areas.
So the company has started about, 6 years ago in 2018. Yes. Yes. I'm wondering, like, what is the story behind it? Could could you tell us more about that?

Eugene: Wow. That's a great question. Okay. So so, I think Joel and I have primarily been always in the digital strategy sector. But, individually, we both, are very closely acquainted with supplements, with the health care industry.
I mean, personally, I would call myself biohacker if you're familiar with this term. So I wear several devices on me actually. Like this over here. It's, to measure my heart rate to see how am I responding to recovery.
And, I think, since young, I have been, personally, I would say afflicted, but negatively impacted by quite a lot of ailments. Eczema is one for me. And eczema, I know, is something that you can't really put your finger down on what causes it. So, since, secondary school, I've been having eczema flare ups all over the body everywhere. And, you know, sometimes doctors say it's stress, sometimes doctors say it's a legend, you know.
So, along this journey, I've explored thoroughly actually on what are the supplements available. So I went to creams. After that, I realized that, oh, you know, actually, right, maybe creams only help, the symptom. Right? So I look at also how do I supplement my health.
Because as I research more, I became more convinced that personally that, it's the mind body is related and a lot of things that we are experiencing symptomatically, right, it's actually the overall body trying to, balance itself. So I subscribe to a very holistic approach in terms of health. So eczema is one, and the other one is, I do have, what do you call, like, lack of energy. So I feel very sleepy a lot of times.
That affects my, like especially in the entrepreneur life, right, affects, productivity efficiency. So, that's why I've been struggling since, like, GCN. I've always forced it during lectures. I'm never a big one. Yeah.
So I think through my own, like, needs. Right? I've been researching a lot. And if you ask me what have I purchased, I purchased a lot of things across the, across the retail outlets, across the Internet, you know, and, same for Joel also. I mean, and I think along the way, we say, why not we?
Because with the advent of the, you know, the explosion of our B to B, now we can actually come into contact with the various, you know, like, manufacturers, the research, you know, houses and everything. So we actually did a bit of research. Probably, I would say, for me, it's more for my own, interest and factors. Yeah. That is not what I think that yeah.

Host: I'm just wondering what are some of the products that you have tried along the way for for eczema and also for fatigue.

Eugene: Oh, I think for eczema, everybody will first default to how do we relieve eczema. Right? So it's, relief first. The other day, we try to get rid of it, which is the creams are.
And creams are I mean, everybody I mean, in my journey, the doctors will say, okay. Now try topical steroids and things like that. So I tried, but as you use more of it, you realize that, oh, they're actually side effects. These are not these are actually drugs, really, you see.

Host: Yes.

Eugene: So I already mentioned the brands, but I think that, they do work at a symptom at a symptomatic level. Then for tiredness, well, I'm actually the red bull king, I think. Okay. I drink a lot of, caffeine products. I think I'm a high I have problems drinking, like, 7 to 8 coffees or, energy drinks a day.
I don't think it's very healthy. So, I that's why I started looking for, like, you know, what else can I do to actually improve my health, in a overall way? So I think it's been an interesting journey. And now as we go along with more and more, you know, like, if this kind of information being democratized, right, whereby you can start seeing, like, data coming in off your body.
Right? I think, the way forward is even more interesting because then we can start to attribute, like, what really works and what doesn't work. And does it work together? So, yeah. I'm really excited about the way forward, especially in terms of the data we can get from devices and hardware in response to our supplementation.

Host: Yeah. Sure. So you shared your experience, right, dealing with, you know, some of the conditions like eczema. I'm wondering how did this, materialize into, like, a business. How did how did you jump from, you know, looking for different solutions into really going into launching products?

Eugene: I think that, is, least from my perspective, as we uncover, we we say, actually, there are interesting formulations out there. There are, like, manufacturers who are able to provide what, I'm looking for, but why isn't it available in the market? And so as we as we uncover that, we say, okay. Why not? Let's try, you know.
So I think as with all startups, you know, you first start off you first start off with a bit of, like, testing, experimenting. And one of the earliest product is actually the Men's Vitality Formula. So that is actually in line with, how do I supplement my own body, you know, in terms of creating the overall, like, balance and wellness as one of the ways to work on my eczema. Yeah. So the earliest product was actually general health products.
Yeah. And from there, you know, as we hear more feedback, we say, okay. There is other needs, other, requirements from people. So we go and investigate those areas. But I think the first set of products are things that we are personally and intimately familiar with already.

Host: Sure. Sure. And you also cofounded this company with, with, Joel? Joe Fu? Correct.

Eugene: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Host: So he is your, you know, your friend, your schoolmate. Yeah.

Eugene: We go way back, actually. We first got to know each other through a case competition in the university days. So, we linked up. We did our first case competition, and I think we worked very well together. So Joel and me, I think, we compliment each other very well in terms of the way that we operate.
Not only in terms of our skill sets, but also in terms of the way that we approach life. So, he he's more of the numbers person while I'm more of the, you know, like, the same, more human centric side of the company. Yeah. But it's been nonsense. Yeah.
I mean, I'm I would say that not many people can say that, you know, you have a friend and a partner that goes way back since that I would say, probably 2002 or 2003. Wow. That's almost …

Host: That's in your university days.

Eugene: Yes. Correct.

Host: Oh, so you all did computer science back then?

Eugene: No. I was we both did business.

Host: Oh, business. Okay. Okay. I see. I see. Okay. I see.

Eugene: You’re probably thinking of that because we were in the digital space. Right?

Host: Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Eugene: So, we actually after we graduated, I think we it was a period whereby there was a lot of funding in the digital space area. So we actually went out to also get funding, you know, from the, VCs and also from the government sector. And that's how we first started.

Host: Oh, okay. I see. I see. So I mean, it's also very linked to what you have studied. Right? You know, business and then really going out into the real world and starting your own company, your own business.
Have you tried anything else before setting out Nano SG?

Eugene: Yeah. We, well, we have done quite a lot of interesting stuff, to be honest. How far do you wanna go back? So prior to Nano SG, I think, we were involved in, digital consultancy that does user experience.
We did web development, mobile application. Joel is also involved in, SG Connect, which is a car loans portal. And we should go way back, way back, way back, way back, in our Uni days. We actually, went out to sell, you know, during US eve and Christmas eve, you will see people like selling those kind of like party stuff on the streets. Right?
So that's what we did. We actually imported in those huge, big, like, poppers with confetti poppers. When you twist right, you explode with all the confetti flies. So we actually imported tons and tons of the bring it, to pedal all this. You know, and it was an interesting experience.
I think we got maybe on the wrong side of some of the organizers, the different organizers, but, it was just a very interesting experience.

Host: I see. And now into supplements, it's like a completely new feel. Will you say that? Like, you know, so different from what you have done previously in the digital space.Right?

Eugene: Yeah. I think I think to be honest, the so this this field that we're in is, it's not new field. It's something that we are closely, intimately, connected to because of our personal experience. But at the same time, right, if you think about it, Nano Singapore is a B to C brand, which means that we operate primarily in the online space, and we have a relationship with our customers.

Host: Sure.

Eugene: That actually is what we have been always doing for the past 20 years, Whatever we've been doing, right, is in the digital space. So I would say that the journey that we have went through has, has been was needed for us to be able to quickly get up to speed, in this field, to be honest, which is highly competitive. And, to be able to, I think more importantly, create value in this space. So customers and consumers must recognize that they receive value from us.
At the same time, we must also create awareness, awareness in a space where it's so crowded and flooded with so many voices already. You see, I mean, how many more, like, vitamin c do you need in the market? Or how many more of yeah. So that's why when we go in, right, we are always looking of what else, what more, and where's the gap? So Nano Skin, you can clearly see that, you know, it's about the evolving behaviors and lifestyle trends of of people in general.
Yeah. And so if they are placenta. I'm sorry for bringing through all the history. Let me just go back to you again.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. How about, you know, like, because the company started in 2018. Right? And just 2 years later, COVID came in. So how did the company, you know, navigate? How did the company manage itself during those, you know, those 2 to 3 years when, you know, COVID was, you know, has affected a lot of things?

Eugene: I think COVID came as a surprise to everybody, including us. And for us because, ours is a product based business. So immediately, we experienced a significant impact in terms of logistics. Our supply chains were disrupted, because of COVID. Right? It took about 5 to I mean, for us, from our products to come from the manufacturing plant, right, to Singapore.Right? The lead time was extended to about 5 to 6 months. So can you imagine, like, you know, we've made payment, we had full payment earlier, and everything. Right? And then we only can start selling, like, 6 to 7 months after.
Well, that's ..

Host: Yeah. Just a long time.

Eugene: That's a long time. And those cash flow I mean, if we're already very tight in the beginning, that's even crazier. So, I think, as with a lot of entrepreneurs, who are bootstrapping. Right?
So, we work within our own personal cash flow. I think we also went without pay for a couple of months during that period. We just type over. Thankfully, you know, eventually ease up and, the logistics supply chain, found I mean, we did find our own solutions, but at the same time, there were also support, you know, from the various industries and the government agencies.
So as a result of this, what we did was that we actually, looked at building up during that period of time, immediately building a multi manufacturing approach, which means that we can no longer rely on a single manufacturer from a single geographic location. You would die. So, during the period, we were looking around, you know, who are the partners? Who else can we approach? Do we have the same setup?
You know, is it, you know so it's really sourcing. Alright. And thankfully, in that period, we managed to quickly get up entirely new, like, multi model manufacturing approach where, we hedge risk. So depending on where we are serving to, right, we have our manufacturers closer to the customer. This would not have happened without COVID, to be honest.
We were forced to pivot very fast. We were forced to look for solutions very quickly.

Host: True. So may I know where, you know, where are the company where are the factories really, located right now? You know, the cap the factories that y'all work with.

Eugene: So, we have factories, both in the Asian, Asia region as well as the US region. It should be Hong Kong side, US. So at this point in time, we are still also, in the midst of consolidating, you know, which are the, manufacturing plants that best serve our customers also. So it will it an ongoing, refinement process. Yeah.


Host: Sure. Sure. And at the same time, right, during COVID, I think a lot of, there's a lot of, use of digital platforms. More people are going online. And because you all do have the background in, digital solutions, so I'm wondering how did the company maybe use, this opportunity and expand itself on the online space and, you know, having greater engagement with the consumers?

Eugene: Okay. So because we are B to C, we actually operate primarily from the marketplaces. That means you're talk looking at, like, Lazada, Shopee, and that's traditionally, you know, where we are good already. I think with COVID and the changing landscape, you still see an uptake of more, newer channels, like live streaming, TikTok. You know?
So, I wouldn't say about the traditional online spaces like our website and things like that. I won't be familiar with already, but, as we see the consumer trends, you know, changing, we also, are quick we are very quick to adapt and move and try out new and experiment new areas, where we think that actually, our customers might be or where they would, benefit from having our presence there. So, for example, we actually tested out or have ran live stream on TikTok using AI avatars. So something new. So these avatars were entered with the customers online and direct them to, our purchase our products.
At this point in time, I can be honest with you. If you compare our landscape, in this few years, right, and compared to the last 5 to 10 years, right, I think things are moving at such an exponential piece that, even in the online space, there will be a lot of disruption. There will be a lot of changes on who the incumbents are, who the market players are. So, our strength, I would say probably is the ability to be agile. Because we're digital natives, we have the teeth that we build, also are very digitally inclined.
So it will be really looking at, you know, how the market, moves. And then we will see how can we, move with it and also provide value at the same time. So, this is a really exciting era, I hate to be honest.

Host: Yeah. Sure. Sure. For the live streaming, you were saying that you have created this AI bot, who's able to interact. Yeah.

Eugene: It's Avatar. Yeah.

Host: Oh, Avatar. AI Avatar who is able to react I mean, like, interact real time with the consumers.

Eugene: Correct. Yes.

Host: Well, how did y'all how did y'all, come out with this?

Eugene: How to build an avatar? I think it's, I think we are always exploring what's available in the market. Is there anything new? Is there anything interesting and exciting? Always on the lookout, you know, on the marketplaces or so.
And, in terms of the questions, of course, these are all, like, emerging technologies. Right? Even though it's commercially available already, but there are still drawbacks. So you can feed in the answers through a set of, database questions, templates. But, I think at the end of the day, we are very open to experimentation and seeing, what's the next thing that can be or maybe it could be the same thing, but it's improved.
Yeah. On how we can better reach out to customers and consumers. So, have you bought from like, purchased from TikTok before?

Host: No. Not yet. Yes. Not that not that young to buy it from, you know, from TikTok. Yeah.

Eugene: Yeah. So so there are different segments that are for that are are comfortable as a default, you know, to purchase things from. Right?
And I think that on top of this, to really take a look at, you know, how are people's behavior changing and are they I I would I would say that consumers are becoming more savvy. Consumers are requiring more data and information for them to make an informed decision to buy. Gone are days whereby you can sell call your you know? Now they had they're armed with data.
They know what is the market price. They know what is the ingredient. They know, you know, like, what's the pros and cons. So we've evolving and more, well informed customer segment. I think it's our duty to actually put the power in their hands to decide, you know, what's best for them.
Right? And this is this is the best way is through AI, if possible, and through providing them with relevant, rich information that, that best suits them.

Host: I see. Are you still using the AI avatar? And also, what other possibilities do y'all see, with using AI to help with, you know, be it selling the products or be it coming up with developing new products?

Eugene: Fine. Okay. That's a question we have we're trying to answer on a daily basis. We do have a we do have a catch all answer for that at this point in time, but, for the AI avatar, I think we are still, tweaking along the way to see how it best serves the market. It I think there's a lot, more improvement that it can be done for.
In terms of how can it be other, other use case, we actually use AI for customer support. So if you go to our website, I think if you go to the chatbot, they're AI driven. They can answer some, questions, based on the data that we feeded already. However, I think we are still a way to go from having an almost human like experience. So we're waiting for AI to catch up also.
But, I think it beats the days, you know, in the past where you have very straightforward chatbots that only can answer you in a certain way and they get stuck, you know, when there are, nuances to language semantics. Now, I think we are seeing what chatgpt is doing and what the other competitors I mean, not competitors, but the vendors are doing. It is so much more, fluid. It's so much more user centric. And I think that, moving ahead, right, we see AI almost in all areas of our corporate functions.
If you think about logistics, I am I'm I think I we are looking at a time where logistics can be actually optimized by AI already. When do we stop at the marketplaces? When do we, you know, reorder? You know, things like that. We think about customer and marketing definitely is AI driven.
Now a lot of data, you know, we're getting data analytics from, from our marketplaces, from the orders on our website, but it requires a human to actually process them through. Right? To actually see where the trends. I would say that AI will be next ready to actually, do hyper targeting, to do hyper personalization, and to, any of the data I would say that, with AI, we are hoping to see that the customers capture more of the value, you know, of what to buy, when to buy, and how to use it. Yeah.
So I talked about earlier about the about supplements not being just an all, you know, or the end game. Actually, it's in my personal opinion, it's more of a way of life really. How do you actually, you know, put this all together to really support you to have a healthy lifestyle?
And a lot of times, it is not only the supplementation, but it's also your discipline, your habit, your ritual and commitment each morning to go through the steps. So I think, perhaps with AI, we can start to support more of the customers in their journey of managing their health their health be well-being. Yeah. Very aspirational. We're not sure how to get there yet, but I think we are also just keeping a lookout for, you know, like, how do we get there? How do we get there and, test out on pilot groups of people. Yeah.

Host: Yeah. Indeed. I think, with, AI and also, increased focus on digital tools. Right? I think a lot of companies, nutraceutical companies, are also trying to think of ways, think out of the box, right, to see how they can better use this for their, daily operations. And I thought it would be good to hear from you as well because you are I think, you know, start out at the end more of a gel in, you know, making new changes. So, yeah, like what you mentioned just now, the AI avatar, I think that that is one interesting example. So you are still, you know, upgrading it, tweaking, making some of the tweaks.Right?
Yeah. So what are some of the things that you are working on to make it better?

Eugene: Oh, I think first, it must be something that is user friendly and is able to deliver the information immediately to the customer. So, you know, if you call the banks, right, they were of the AI chat or someone, voice response.
But a lot of times you will say, give me the live agent. Give me the live agent. Give me to a live person. You know? I see for all of it because you know why?
We have been conditioned to realize that the answers fed to us through AI, right, don't really directly answer my questions. So I think, for us, it's the same thing. We are trying to make sure that the first thing is that we're able to deliver accurate, information in a timely manner. But once that is done right, we can do a lot of things already. So, you're talking about personalization, talking about customization.
We're talking about even advice, right, on how do you integrate this as a part of our habit daily habit and rituals. Yeah. So, but then, of course, come later. Now it's more, we do have a human. We have humans being who are able to do that. So how do we translate that into AI

Host: Sure. Sure. Yeah. At the moment, what I am seeing now is indeed a lot driven by humans. Like, in China, in Taiwan, I have heard of companies like, you know, China, JD Health. They have their own nutritionist and doctors, who are really step you know, they will stand by to answer all the questions that consumers would have.
And in Taiwan as well, there's this brand, I think it was founded by a nutritionist, and they became popular because of the free consultation that they are able to provide. So even if people are not buying from them, they are still able to, get some health advice from them and that's how they manage to build out their reputation and brand identity. One of the, better selling brands in Taiwan, for their probiotics at the moment. Yeah.

Eugene: I think that's very interesting. I like the concept a lot because, I think at the end of the day, it's how do we provide value. Right? And if we can provide value, right, without them having to, like, fork out a huge amount of investment, I think that's a great thing to do because at the end of the day, you know, customers who are delighted by you will come back to you again. Right?
So I would definitely want to research more on what you are sharing just now.

Host: I will let you know more. You know, I will share with you the some of the names of the companies that that I know. Yeah. And, also, in Singapore, right, where Nano SG is based in, you know, just by the name, we already know that it's coming from Singapore. How do you see the level of competition in Singapore's, supplement space?

Eugene: The competition is always very, very, intense, to be honest. I mean, this space has always been highly competitive. We even before we step in, you know, we look back 20, 30 years ago, it's very dominated by, incumbent brands, both international and local. So, if the Internet didn't happen, you know, and the e-marketplace doesn't happen, right, I think that, a lot of new companies will face, significant barriers if I enter in this market.
Because the old landscape is whereby is through the traditional distribution channels. Right? You distribute through the retail alerts. And all these, there are limitations. There are limited shelf space, you know, limited floor space.
But with marketplaces, it's unlimited. Anybody can post up. Of course, with that, right, what we are seeing is that COVID was a period where everything was turned upside down. So we are seeing the traditional players starting to, play catch up already. They are and they're doing pretty well, you know, to come on board to online.
I must admit that it's more difficult for traditional players, incumbents to be agile. So they're doing a good job. Then for new players, you start seeing a lot of, startups. Gone were the days whereby you had to have a medical advisory board and then have a big manufacturing plan before you even dare to launch your first product.
Now everything's on cloud. You know, you can you can you can just pull resources easily. And if you want, you can get something up and running, in less than a year. And we have seen that also. So I would say that, market previously was well protected, well entrenched, difficult. Now it's even more difficult because you have both all and you coming at the same time.
And it's a great thing for consumers because at the end of the day, right, is, who benefits? Consumers because we are all trying to create more value, create more value. And the value might not even come from the product itself. It might come from the complementary ecosystem.
Like, what you said earlier, free consultation. You know, maybe a wellness app. Maybe it could be even, what do you call, like, supplementary, content. Like, I would say meditation guides, you know, or, like, audio files. So, the future is very exciting. And that's how it should be actually.

Host: Yeah. Indeed. And also at the same time for your company, right, you have announced the entrance into brick and mortar, which is Guardian earlier this year. Yeah. So how did the opportunity come about? And, because the company also started from online, right, what sort of, opportunities do you all see in the offline space?

Eugene: So, how did how did this opportunity come about? It came about through how well we use that, through us approaching the, the various, you know, this the retail outlets. So we managed to get a response from them. And I would say that in general, it's for larger established distribution partners, right, this type of, lead time is typical. It requires a lot of follow-up because, the categories are already full. The shelf is already full with brands.
How do they create additional shelf space for you? Right? So we totally understand. And, but we think that it's important to get in also because, you know, for sometimes, you know, it the traditional outlets serve a segment of people, and maybe you need today. Right?
You need to go and buy a pen, something here. Right? You need to go down already. So, and we find that, of course, being physically present also helps with, top of mind awareness. So traditional, retail outlets, are something that we definitely are interested to continue expanding into.
Imagine if you see us online, you see us offline, you see us everywhere you go. I think, that really creates a strong, sticky brand presence. Yeah.
So, currently, I think we are still, working our way through the various, you know, outlets to get more presence in the outlets also. We probably look listed in around 100 outlets in Singapore right now.

Host: Yeah. I see. I'm wondering, what are some of the how did y'all convince Guardian or the distributor, you know, the partners to help you get into Guardian?
This could be something that a lot of other companies or startups who are interested in going to brick and mortar are hoping to find more as well.

Eugene: I think at the end of the day, you've got to think from the point of view, you know, as a retailer. Right? What are the why would you wanna bring someone in, someone new in? You'll only bring someone in if you are confident that this shelf space I'm giving you will give me returns. Simple as that. Okay? If I'm taking someone else away, right, I put you in, right, you must give a better return compared to whoever that I removed from.
Yeah. So, it helps if you have a chart record. It helps if you have all that sales volume online. It helps if you have amazing collaterals testing on this. It helps if you have social media presence.
And with that, people will say that, oh, and, of course, that you must show value. You must have proven to have created value to your customers. So with all that stack of irrefutable evidences, right, I would say then, you know, you probably have a fighting chance with, traditional retailers. Because the odds must be stacked in their favor in order for them to think twice and say, oh, I will put you inside. So it's not an easy journey, but I think that, the reason their buy is high is all the more the reason for us to also raise our buy to meet that minimum requirement.
And my not really adviser, but to new consumers will be you have to get a thing going up, you know, and really create value in this marketplace before you can be, recognized by traditional players or traditional retail outlets. Yeah.

Host: Are all the products from Nano SG stock in Guardian, or you have selected a few, you know, bestsellers and stock in Guardian?

Eugene: So for, for majority of the outlets, they only hold a selection. There are a couple of outlets, like 10 or 20 outlets in Singapore that hold maybe up to 15 SKUs. Again, I think it's more of a this is a balance and discussion between us and the and the, partner. So, we don't want a space. If I could, I would love to stop everything, you know, in across all the shelves. Yeah.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. They do have they do have that. I think it's for their long time partner and, you know, all the well established brands. I'm wondering, if you could share what are the top 3 best sellers and because you were saying that a track record is important. Right? And how about the year on year growth in terms of revenue percentage wise? Are are you able to share that?

Eugene: Okay. Those are, I'll see what I can do. Yeah. Okay.

Host: Okay. Sure.

Eugene: So bestsellers, I'll say that, it will be what I shared earlier, the Men's Vitality Formula, you know, our Probiotics. Actually, now, right, the best sellers don't remain best sellers. Things move very quickly.
So, like, what as you have seen, right, when we launch new products, right, typically, we've done pretty much a lot of research already. So, generally, the markets that the items that we push the market, right, tend to actually do quite well, over a period of time already. Yeah. But if you were to ask me, right, things that go well typically would be, things that most people will be concerned about, which is general health, weight, and also anti-aging. You know?
And that pretty much, covers what we are doing right now already. Then in terms of growth, I would say that, our growth is something that we have been monitoring very closely. So over the past few years, we're always targeting, you know, double digit growth. Probably 20, 30, 40 is something that we're targeting year on year depending on the situation. But, because we're on in the online space, right, we have a bit more liberty, a bit more flexibility to, push up things more aggressively compared to, brick and mortar players, where they, you know, they have to go through the traditional product cycle.
Yeah. So, I think all I can say is that they are these are exciting times ahead, and, we're really looking for a lift in market awareness and in increasing our market share, both locally and also regionally.

Host: Yeah. Indeed. Indeed. And for the online space, it's easier to launch so called easier to launch new products, right, because there's like no shelf space constraints, and you can trial different new products. Right?

Eugene: Exactly.

Host: That's one of the plus side to that. And I'm wondering, you know, transiting not transiting, but expanding from online to offline, what are some of the difficulties?
How easy or how difficult is it to make the expansion?

Eugene: Okay. From online to offline. Correct?

Host: Yes. Yeah. Any challenges to overcome?

Eugene: Yeah. I think that, while the key business skill sets remain the same, for both online and offline. Right? But, for offline, it will be a lot of, relationship building, a lot of investment in partners. It might okay. So general skill set are the same, but in terms of the efforts, right, I think they are very different, actually. So what are the what are the things that we should look out for?
Okay, so my take is this. Instead of focusing on how do we best tackle the offline partners or how do we go offline. Right? I would still stay focused on the product, focus on our customers, with the testimonies and with the stories and with the evidence that people are really gaining value. Right? Those will open in the offline sector. Yeah. So, we call it an inbound marketing approach or a full approach. Right?
I think we need to give ammunition for offline partners to hold on to and see, hey. This looks like a good bet. This looks like a good partner to have, you know, before we have the conversation. Yeah. Otherwise, it will be tough, you know, like, as it's like pulling teeth from people, especially if they don't know who you are and what value can you create. But that's my only suggestion. Sure. Sure.

Host: Sure. And so there's a lot lot of work that needs to be done online so that you can apply it offline, like, all the learning experience and results. Yeah.
So what are some of the upcoming plans that Nano SG has when it comes to, new product launches or maybe even market expansion? You were saying that it's not going to be just Singapore, right, but also overseas?

Eugene: Yeah. So, let's talk about the new product launch. I said we talked earlier about the sun's the, you know, our sunscreen, and that's topical. Right? Yeah. But we're actually going to oral. So, it's aN oral UV sunscreen supplement. And, this is actually quite interesting because not many people know about it or, you know, in at least in this region. Yeah. So, we are going to do that. And how this, oral supplement works is that it really serves as a complement to traditional way of application. So traditional sunscreen where you apply. Right?
But, you might forget to reapply because, you know, for traditional sunscreens, you have to keep on reapplying depending on the SPF. And it can be washed off by water if it's not waterproof, or you can wipe it away. You know? And in some areas, it could be difficult to apply. So, the oral version of it covers the gaps when you forget to reapply, when you can't apply it or, you know, for whatever reason, you don't do the reapplication.
Yeah. I think, again, that we're looking at more of, like, you know, 360 holistic protection and coverage. So that's where we are coming from. And to be honest, the climate is getting worse and worse. And if you go anywhere, the same thing altogether, you're seeing the weather's a topsy-turvy, and it's getting hotter, warmer.
You know? So if you take a look at the circulars from your ministries and whatever, everybody is saying put on your sunscreen, put on your sunblock. Let's be careful, you know. Even if you're just, like, walking out to the MRTO, I better put it on also because, I think we are facing, what do you call this? It's the first time we're having this kind of really huge impact, you know, in our environment.
So, I think this comes to the opportune time, this oral supplement. And, I think a lot of education is required. We'll see how this goes, but we're very excited because this is quite a novel way of application.

Host: Yeah. What are some of the ingredients that y'all will be using? Are you able to share that?

Eugene: Not at this point in time, but, what we will do is that well, once it's out, right, we will be the first to inform you.

Host: Sure. Sure. Sure. I would like to find out more about the market expansion.

Eugene: Yeah. So, back to the products first. We it is not a product. This is actually a complimentary, content that we are creating. It's a new wellness hub, on our website. So remember I talked about, this health being a holistic, you know, framework, of mind, body, and, you know, health. So this website, this wellness hub, right, it actually has a lot of content in terms of fitness, wellness videos. And we're trying to, we're in need of getting up an AI powered custom new planner, you know, home workout.
So it's really just to start something, where we provide resources, in a one stop portal, You know? And this resource is meant to supplement our customers' health and journey and fitness journey needs. And, eventually, right, with more information, more data, and with AI, right, we hope to be to be able to personalize solutions to meet their unique, needs in terms of supplementation and health. So it's the baby step by step moving forward.
You can you can probably Google it where you've got something, like, up and running, as a pilot already. Yeah. So that's one we're doing. And in terms of expansion plans, definitely, we are looking at, rolling out, our products across the region. I think we are already present in some markets.
You know? For example, like Malaysia. However, each country and geography, right, has its own unique environment, legislation, health guidelines. So, and also, intellectual property. You know?
We have to protect ourselves in terms of copyrights, licensing. So, we are gradually, you know, like, looking at, looking at how do we, roll out in the market that has the highest chance of success first. So, and in markets that we can't go in, we are also aggressively looking for partners. Yeah. So, definitely, geography expansion is one of them.
The other one will be the product portfolio expansion. As you can see, we are also growing right now only in terms of our supplements, but also in topical products. I think at the end of the day, we go where our customers go. We're not only treating symptoms. Right?
You know? We are not only, like, treating a specific, health supplementation goal. We're looking at how do we enhance your overall general wellness in life. How do you, you know, and, like, why do we want to be healthy? We want to be healthy so that we can go and live our most fulfilling lives in whatever that we do.
Right? So it's really about, creating, providing all the resources to support the individual. So, hopefully, moving ahead, there'll be no more Eugene's in the in the world, you know, suffering from eczema and lack of energy. They are able to figure a way out to actually combat that easily and get on with life to do what they really want.

Host: Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. Today on this podcast, it's really good to have, you know, a Singapore brand sharing the views, you know, the company's views with us. Most of the time, it's really from the, you know, the bigger markets that we are hearing from. Founders from, you know, Australia, India.
So really great to have you here on the podcast. Thank you so much, Eugene.